Jamie Dimon is done being ‘binary’: On Trump’s ‘economic disaster’ credit card plan, foreign policy, and NATO

In an increasingly fraught political environment, JPMorgan CEO Jamie Dimon is steering clear of any “binary” outlooks.

Macroeconomic and foreign policy out of the White House under Trump 2.0 has divided opinion: Critics have blasted his tariff plans as “bullying,” while advocates believe the Oval Office is merely righting unfair trade practices.

The Wall Street titan is keen to find a middle ground, particularly if the outcome of some policies remains unclear. Speaking at the World Economic Forum meeting in Davos, Switzerland, this week, Dimon repeatedly said he wanted to avoid drawing “binary” conclusions about the economy and the impact of foreign policy.

Even on White House policies he believes would be a “disaster,” he said he was still open to the idea of an experiment. For example, President Donald Trump is pressuring U.S. lawmakers to pass legislation to limit credit card rates to 10%, having appealed to banks on social media to voluntarily sign up to the agreement.

“It would be an economic disaster,” Dimon told the Davos audience, suggesting it would remove credit lines for 80% of Americans. A study released Monday by the American Bankers Association found 74% to 85% of open credit card accounts nationwide would be closed or have their credit lines drastically reduced if the cap was brought in—up to 159 million cardholders.

Even then, “I have a great idea,” Dimon said. “Since there’s a huge disagreement on this one … I think we should test it.”

The CEO of America’s biggest bank said he was confident JPMorgan would survive such an event, adding: “The people crying the most won’t be the credit card companies. It’ll be the restaurants, the retailers, the travel companies, the schools, the municipalities—because people [will] miss their water payments, this payment, that payment.”

“They should test it,” he added.

The foreign policy question

Trump has raised eyebrows even further in the past few weeks alone, on account of his foreign policy demands. This has included threatening tariffs on a bevy of European countries that opposed his bid to acquire Greenland.

While those threats have since been rolled back, Trump shared some similarly controversial opinions about NATO. The president has previously threatened to leave the military alliance, and also claimed in his speech at Davos this week: “The United States is treated very unfairly by NATO. When you think about it, nobody can dispute it. We give so much, and we get so little in return.

“And I’ve been a critic of NATO for many years, and yet I’ve done more to help NATO than any other president, by far than any other person,” he added. “You wouldn’t have NATO if I didn’t get involved in my first term.”

Asked whether Trump’s approach had made the NATO alliance stronger or weaker, 69-year-old Dimon said the answer wasn’t as “binary” as that.

He explained highlighting NATO’s weaknesses and areas for improvement was understandable, but countered: “I think it’s okay to point out; I would be more polite about it, about the weaknesses of Europe, what they need to do. But if the goal is to make them stronger as opposed to fragment Europe, then I think that’s okay.”

An aversion to political polarization is something of an anomaly in the current political climate. In July, Pew Research published a study that found 80% of Americans say Republican and Democratic voters not only disagree on important challenges facing the country, but also on basic facts.

Davos elite

Dimon also refused to comment on whether or not there was a “culture of fear” among U.S. business leaders when it comes to criticizing the administration. The question, which drew applause from the audience, prompted some blunt feedback for those whom Dimon labeled the “Davos elite.”

“I’ve been coming to Davos all these years and listen to chatter and stuff like that,” he said. “And you didn’t do a particularly good job making the world a better place. I think it’s great we get together and talk.”

Striving for a balanced view has been a hallmark of Dimon’s since Trump won the Oval Office, and has established the CEO—who himself has been tipped for a career on Capitol Hill from the Oval Office to the Federal Reserve—as something of a critical friend to the White House.

He has backed some policies, for example, saying the White House was right to address trade imbalances between the U.S. and its partners. He told Fox in an interview in May that at first, he thought tariff rhetoric was “too large, too big, and too aggressive when it started.” 

However, he was concerned by the Oval Office’s proclamation imposing a new $100,000 fee for H-1B visas. The specialist visas let U.S. employers temporarily hire non-U.S. workers, typically for specialized tech-sector jobs, and have been held by some of Silicon Valley’s most notable names.

“I would beg the president,” he told CNBC at JPMorgan’s 10th annual India Investor Conference in September. “We should have good immigration. I think there will be some pushback on the H-1Bs.”

The banker robustly summarized his views at Davos as being a “globalist.” He said: “I’ve made it clear I want a stronger NATO, a stronger Europe. Some of the things Trump has done are causing that, some are not. I’m not a tariff guy, though I’d use it in [some] cases. I think they should change their approach to immigration. I’ve said it.”

This story was originally featured on Fortune.com